How do you deal with crazy relatives?
My sister is nuts. I know I’ve complained about her a lot, in the long past. She’s also, as symptom of her nuts, abusive. She’s quit with some of the worst ones — say, when she said, proudly, that at least *she* had never wanted to kill herself, I said that hey, at least I had friends and a job and had finished school. It was cruel, but on the other hand, it was effective: she’s dropped that one entirely. I don’t know if I’m proud of it, but I’m relieved about the outcome.
(Irrelevant digressive story follows, then at the end the point I really wanted to make and which I’d like any sort of intelligent words on. I certainly have no ideas. I cannot, for other reasons, stop actually seeing her.)
She still attacks. She told me the other day she really for sure wants to study X now. (Doesn’t matter what X is, though it’s something she’s terrifically unsuited for.) I said that I hoped it worked out well. She badgered and badgered me until I said that, yes, well, she’s had a million really for sures, so it’s nice and all, but I don’t believe it. She said this time is different. Now, I do think she really really means it, but I also think this time isn’t different. I said ok. She badgered some more. I said that she said the same thing every time, so excuse me if I don’t have much faith, maybe she should get a job first.
Badger badger badger. Fine! Fine, I think it’s a job you are not going to be good at, that you don’t have the skills for it (nb: this is true also for me), and that you should just get a job and figure out what you want to do when you can actually support yourself. Then she yells at me.
We both knew where the conversation would lead. I can start out casually saying yes, it’s a fine idea, blah blah blah, but after fifty zillion hearings of ‘but what do you really think?’, I tend to actually say what I really think.
I never am sure: she doesn’t know how she comes across at times, but she does know how to be cruel, and is it deliberate? She never sees her fault in anything.
This was not at all the post I meant to write. But my thoughts about her are so incoherent.
On the one hand, she’s family. On the other hand, she’s abusive. Back to the first hand, she’s really clearly sick and incapable, and is it fair to resent her for being sick and incapable? But on that second hand, she refuses to try anything to change it. But then, isn’t that a symptom of being sick? And on and on and on I go.
September 21st, 2006 at 2:17 pm
I don’t have a sibling, so I have no idea if this is doable, but what about coming right out the first time & saying what you really think? Would she stop asking you then? (Like I said, I don’t know if it’s doable, because I’m not sure if it’s just as impossible as not seeing her.)
There’s a book called the Dance of Anger (self-help! so helpful!), and it has the nice if fairly impractical point that anger requires two people; that is, if you respond fairly & respectfully to her anger (”I know you don’t want me to tell you you’re not suited for it, and I tried not to, but you did continue to ask.”), she may stop getting mad at you. I never knew how to do that, personally, but I can’t help mentioning it.
And I think it’s fair to resent her refusal to try to change it. Definitely understandable.
September 21st, 2006 at 2:39 pm
Is it worth telling her what you really think? I get that with all the badgering you just get so annoyed and tired of swallowing your real opinions. I’m not sure I see the point in telling her anything, since you’re clearly not going to change her behavior. Maybe that’s asking for you to be bigger than is humanly possible, given the barrage of questioning to which she subjects you. Seems pretty clear she just wants to pick a fight.
Huh. That’s a really tough situation. Your choice seems to be to fight or to not interact at all.
September 21st, 2006 at 8:18 pm
I think it’s fine to be annoyed and repelled even if she is sick and capable, and I don’t think it matters whether it’s fair or not. If she’s really that messed up, it doesn’t sound like she even realizes it which is, of course, the only way she’d endeavor to change it. I konw you said you cannot just stop seeing her, but could you avoid her, or when these conversations begin, and you know where it’s going, just leave the room? Put on ear phones? Refuse to discuss it?
I can’t believe that the “at least I didn’t try to kill myself” was a line that was uttered multiple times to which you ultimately had to give a comeback to end it.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:02 am
This is kind of a side question, but what role do your parents play in this? Can they step in in any kind of meaningful way (not in your arguments, but in her illness)?
I don’t have any great advice. When my sister was very depressed and blaming it all on me, I tried to avoid all conversations that weren’t innocuous. There were a very few subjects on which we could have a lovely agreeable conversation, and I played those for all they were worth and tried to ignore/avoid all others. Not easy and it didn’t work all the time, but it worked enough of the time to keep me sane.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:39 am
i struggle with a similar issue with my mother. she and i have a terrible relationship. i am always reminded of an article i read in high school that put forth the idea that familial love is not required. it’s useful, mind you, in the genetic, evolutionary sense, but it’s not really something that HAS to be. i’m not saying here that i don’t love my mother, because i think i do. but sometimes i question that and i feel ok about it. i definitely don’t like her. she’s not someone that i would EVER spend time with if we weren’t related. once i understood all this i tried to develop some coping stratgies to help me minimize the bad feelings when i am around her. it doesn’t always work, but things are much better. i know her triggers and i just don’t set them off. i know how she’s going to react to things i do, so i just don’t do them around her. because we don’t spend very much time together i don’t find this too stifling.
in the case of your sister i’d just like to say that you shouldn’t feel bad if you don’t get along with her. try to think of her as more like a sister in law - i think (though i’m not married) that if you had an abusive sister in law you’d really not like that person and minimize your interactions with her and not feel guilty about it. maybe you can do that with your sister (as others have suggested). you don’t HAVE to talk to her unless you are feeling up to it. if she calls just don’t answer unless you can shake off some of the crap she throws your way. i make sure i answer about 1/10 of my mother’s calls and only when i’m in a generous mood.
i hope this doesn’t sound preachy, i just feel sympathetic to people with difficult family relationsips and i hate to see them pile guilt on top of all the other hurt because this person is related to them.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:42 am
Ceresina, no. If I start that way, she starts getting angry that I am “too realistic” or “not supportive”. (I was actually very supportive of the first mumbleteen ideas. Now, not so much.) Maybe I should start just acting as if she were talking about this being a dream like winning the lottery. I will try the “well, I tried not to say it”, too.
But what annoys me isn’t even really these conversations, it’s the general abuse, which I am not detailling, but maybe should. I do try to stay out, but I’m human, and not particularly patient at that.
I can try to avoid her, but family meals? Make it hard.
Shelly, yeah. It was actually something she said to me more than once. I think she was angry when I was depressed, like I had everything she wanted, so how dare I be?
My parents do what they can. I disagree with what they do, but realy, it’s their decision. They cannot force her to seek help (it’s been offered), and they cannot kick her out (she’s not functional enough to live on her own). I think they should not allow her use of certain things, and they are debating it. Not my choice, really.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:03 pm
Gotcha. I also didn’t understand that you live together; I wouldn’t have suggested those if I’d realized that.
But I love that she says you’re being “too realistic.” I didn’t know there was such a thing.
September 22nd, 2006 at 12:46 pm
I don’t live with her. I do, however, have dinner with my family 2 times a week, on average.
Betty, I will be — one day — responsible for her. (Possibly shared with my other sister.) And in general, well, I do think I have a responsibility to her as my sister. At the same time, I don’t think my responsibility extends to the point where I need to get abused. Except how much of that is really her fault?
Ceresina, well, if I’m talking about what I’m going to do when I win one billion dollars, and you tell me it won’t work because what are the chances I win the lottery, you’re being too realistic. I keep thinking she’s talking about things like real, actual plans, because she talks about things like getting X kind of a job, or buying a cheap car. But maybe she’s not.
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:20 pm
i see, so it’s not that easy to avoid her. i didn’t understand the situation completely. oh, i’m so sorry wolfa! i’m sure you’re doing the best you can under very crappy circumstances. if you keep thinking abuot this and analyzing the situation you may finally come upon a way to communicate to her that she is actually abusive and maybe she will start to change her ways. but those things are hard. *sigh*
September 24th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
If you’re able to, perhaps just taking a more “clinical” or social-worker-attitude would help? As in, you know she’s sick, so treat her like it.
e.g. if a “that’s nice” leads to more badgering, try to pick up the undercurrent: “It sounds like you want me to say something different. What are you hoping I’ll say?” etc.
If you keep the conversation focused on her (should be easy, no? seems to be what she wants) then you gain a few things:
a) It’s very pass-agressive niceness (how can she be mad at you when you’re so calm?)
b) It shields you by being emotionally distancing and by making the conversation about her and her problems/issues instead of your opinions
c) it will either work really well or be really annoying. I would count either as a win, but that would not be particularly grown-up of me. Siblings, however, do not always bring out the best in me. *sigh*
Bon courage.